Truth Behind Travel Podcast

How To Build the Mindset of a Changemaker in Tourism with Aradhana Khowala

• Dolores Semeraro • Season 4 • Episode 72

Share episode

Dolores Semeraro interviews Global Tourism Expert and Thought Leader Aradhana Khowala on where do we really stand today in gender representation and opportunities, how to build the mindset of a change maker and where is regenerative tourism heading. 

Aradhana Khowala is a global expert and one of the most influential leaders in the luxury hospitality, travel and tourism sector. Today, she is the CEO of Aptamind Partners, a global consultancy firm for governments, emerging destinations, and public and private organisations seeking regenerative tourism development solutions and Prior to her current role, she served as the Managing Director of Tourism at NEOM, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 

She pioneers environmental regeneration and social transformation across her diverse range of global roles and responsibilities. 

SUMMARY

They highlight the lack of progress in gender parity, noting that only 8 out of 78 world leaders at COP29 were women, despite a 1% increase in female participation. Khowala emphasizes the need for structural changes, investment, and accountability to drive gender diversity and sustainability. They also discuss the potential of women in leadership roles, the importance of inclusive systems, and the challenges of greenwashing in regenerative tourism. Khowala advocates for bold, transformative actions and the integration of regenerative practices into tourism's financial models.

  • Gender Representation in COP 29
  • Challenges and Strengths of Women in Tourism
  • Embracing Sustainability Roles
  • Solutions for Increasing Women's Representation
  • Challenges in Tourism Destinations
  • Regenerative Tourism and Women Leaders
  • Preventing Greenwashing in Regenerative Tourism
  • The Role of Vision and Innovation
  • Final Thoughts and Future Directions

Dolores Semeraro is a sought-after international tourism keynote speaker and sustainable tourism marketing professional.

Dolores actively works in the tourism and travel conference space as a keynote speaker and moderator, gracing the stages of international tourism summits and trade shows.

As a professional keynote speaker, Dolores’ speaking topics encompass sustainable digital marketing for the tourism industry, how to establish digital mastery, and learn how to identify today’s traveler’s needs.

During the pandemic, Dolores launched her podcast show named ‘Truth Behind Travel Podcast’ where she regularly interviews tourism and travel industry leaders and representatives on how to rebuild the future of travel.

In the recent years, Dolores has continued to work and live on beautiful islands such as Mauritius, where she started her tourism and hospitality marketing consultancy working closely with the Mauritian luxury hospitality sector as corporate trainer.

According to her international clients, Dolores is a gifted trainer and intuitive workshop facilitator.

She is now based in Europe where she actively works as keynote speaker and corporate trainer in the tourism industry.

www.doloressemeraro.com

dolores@doloressemeraro.com

Instagram @dolores_semeraro

LinkedIn @dolores.sem

Dolores Semeraro:

welcome to Truth Behind travel podcast, a platform for tourism, travel and hospitality professionals and enthusiasts to share, learn and unlearn what we need to create better tourism, protect the environment and become better humans. I'm your host, Dolores Semeraro, and every week, I bring on a podcast the voices of those out there making a difference to learn the hard truth behind the world of travel and tourism, what works and what we can collectively do better. Welcome to Season Four, a series of conversations fully dedicated to women in travel, the trailblazers, the visionaries who have been and continue to be the force for good. We need to hear more from joining us on the show. I am thrilled to welcome truth behind travel podcast sponsor women travel leaders. Women travel leaders is a community that supports high performing, purpose driven travel business leaders to grow their business in less time by fostering a community of heart led leaders who prioritize authenticity and impact above all else. Are you ready to start thriving in your travel business and your life through connecting with a powerful community that truly has your back. Well, head over to the show notes and on the link mention Dolores in the referrer name to first access when applications open and receive 25% off your first year of membership. Today's episode is not for you. If you are a multitasking podcast listener. My podcast guest sets the tone right from the beginning to make sure you don't point your attention anywhere else. And yes, she does command attention. My guest today is a global expert and one of the most influential leaders in the luxury, hospitality, travel and tourism sector. Today, she is the CEO of aptemind, partners, a global consultancy for governments emerging destinations and public and private organizations seeking regenerative tourism development solutions. Prior to this role, she served as the Managing Director of Tourism at Neom in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. She pioneers environmental regeneration and social transformation across her diverse range of global roles and responsibilities. And for this episode, we sit down to observe, where do we really stand in gender representation and opportunities in this industry, how to build the mindset of a change maker, and where is regenerative tourism heading? Let's welcome Aradhna kawala, welcome back to the show, and thank you so much to be here on the show. I am honored.

Aradhana Khowala:

Thank you pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Dolores,

Dolores Semeraro:

this season is dedicated to women in travel, to their voices, to their insights, to their experiences. And I looked at the work that you've been doing over the past few years, real work, real work amongst people, with leaders, with organizations at the global scale, and talking about global scale, we just recently went out from went out of the recent cop, right? Cop 29 the first perhaps, where tourism had a whole chapter dedicated to the industry. And I looked at the people on stage and the people who were speaking and the conversation that were happening there. And I think we have a lot of work to do ahead to make sure that the women's voices are heard and are present. Where do you think we stand nowadays? What are the strengths, or perhaps, what are the most undervalued aspects of being a woman in travel nowadays?

Aradhana Khowala:

Your reference cop, 29 is actually interesting, right? Because you would see a whole host of information out there, including data from and which actually suggests that there's actually been a huge increase in women's participation this year cop 29 compared to previous year. Technically, it's correct, because we had 35% delegates at COP 29 who are women, compared to 34% last year in COP 28 is that an increase? Yes, it is, but it's an increase of 1% guys. Is that enough? Not by any stretch of imagination. And here's the fun fact, if you look at the numbers broadly, yes, there's been an increase in women's participation. But guess what? Only eight out of the 78 world leaders participating in COP this year were women, compared to, I think, the. 15 last year out of 133 countries. So 10 as a percentage, we haven't progressed. We have digressed. And this is not just cop. If you look at any of the summits where climate crisis is being discussed, take UNFCC as an example, right? They talk about consistent increase in number, but I'm not sure I would say women's participation at the highest level has stagnated or even decreased in some in some cases, when we're talking about gender parity in climate negotiations, I think of it as a missed opportunity, right this cop 29 the a fund of 300 billion which has been allocated for climate finance. Fantastic. Really, really, amazing. That's a great first. But does it have a clear cut commitment to gendered financing when it comes to execution? What I mean is, does it have measurable targets and enforcement mechanisms that can actually ensure the distribution is happening in a way just gendered women are impacted more, so we want to ensure more of that financing comes to women. Now to answer the second part of your question, which I thought was fascinating because you said, Where are women's strengths, talents and voices underrated in tourism, right Dolores? How about everywhere? Honestly, it's a bit like asking, where is the sand in the desert? Everywhere. Friend, everywhere. But listen, I want to flip the question and ask, Why? Why don't we ask, Where are men's strengths and talents and voices underrated in tourism, nowhere? And I'm not saying this to be funny, but really, fundamentally, I'm against defining leadership based on gender or boxing leadership styles into male and female. You know, think about it. What is great leadership? Great leadership all about traits like vision, empathy, resilience and collaboration and all of these qualities transcend gender exactly as we don't ask men. How can you, sir, leverage your unique male perspective to drive regenerative or sustainable solutions. We don't, because the narrative has been written in such a way that society has long assumed that men are the natural leaders. They don't need to prove the ability. They don't need to justify their strengths. Meanwhile, women not only demonstrate our leadership skills, but also justify through the lens of gender, as if female abilities is, you know what defines our leadership? And it's it's not an accusation. It's not definitely surprising in travel and tourism, because historically, roles that have been leadership roles in our sector have been male dominated, and female participation was always limited to supportive or informal roles, and even if it's formal, you still expect it to be supportive. The real strength of women leaders comes not from their female qualities, but from their qualities, the ability to bring fresh perspective, the ability to challenge the status quo, the ability to foster really, truly inclusive solutions. And what women leaders can do, and in my opinion, need to do, is just simply lead till then. Lead as we do, lead authentically, lead with integrity, and lead by building systems around you that are generally inclusive, innovative and sustainable. I was going to ask you if you were to give me your your take on if women are joining a conversation or a fighting to have a voice in an ongoing conversation. Should you go for? Would you go for creating your own table, or fighting for a seat at the table? But I guess from your answer, you will say, I'll you certainly fight for a seat at the table, an existing table where where people are equal and all you know, joined together for an equal conversation, absolutely, and if that means we need more chairs at the table, let's bring that on as well. But I don't like the concept of having your own table, because women don't need to talk about this whole concept with more women. So we do enough of that we need to bring men into this mainstream conversation. So let's join the same table, guys, let's have more people, and let's havemany so go so far as to say, let's have a gendered approach to really ensure parity on the table.

Dolores Semeraro:

Do you think that women have a sort of gift when it comes to embracing sustainability roles, especially in leadership.

Aradhana Khowala:

So that is the public perception. Women are seen as the natural champions when it comes to sustainability, and women could also be, from that public perception perspective, seen as getting ahead in the sustainability game we call the Eco gender, aren't we? Because we adopt sustainable practices faster. We have empathy, we have long term thinking, and we have a natural concern for the environment and everything around us, which interestingly positions us as key drivers of sustainability. And there is enough data out there. You look at WEF, you can look at IMF, you can look at World Bank, all of them show that at the top leadership level, at a country, leadership level, country that have more women in leadership, actually score better on sustainability, performance and all kinds of sustainability indexes and are more likely to implement robust environmental policies. Think about Scandinavia. It's a fantastic example huge female representation in politics, and that is a plus one correlation with exceptional environmental performance and sustainable practices. But here is the paradox, despite all of this, women are hugely underrepresented in green jobs and sustainability leadership. It might surprise you, but globally, 72% of jobs that are green jobs are held by men, and that's okay. What worries me is a staggering 90% of women don't have what is called critical green skills. I'm talking green accounting, sustainable supply chain management. To get to those leadership positions, only 6% of women who work in in the developed world, hold green jobs. The same number is 20% for men. I think the biggest problem comes down to how few women pursue STEM education. Because you see a STEM education, that's science, technology, mathematics. It is vital to green jobs in the future. Dolores, I'm talking renewable energy, I'm talking engineering, I'm talking everything in the tech sphere, field that is driving innovation. Right? Women are graduating more from universities, but women account for less than a third of STEM graduates in many countries globally. But here is another fun fact, we have more than 60% women in the tourism workforce, but we have less than 7% women who make it as CEOs, and less 10% women on boards of travel and tourism companies. So we need more women in leadership if we are serious about really driving innovation and sustainability in our industry. And it's not about men versus women, and it's also not just about who's at the helm. It's really about rethinking the model. But look, this is not about listing the challenges. We know what the challenges are, right? We need solutions, and let me give you three very simple number one, investment. Show me the money, honey at the end of the day. I have always believed that money talks and bullshit walks. Put your money where the mouth is, invest and you will see results. Number two, accountability we need to measure, to manage. And I say, Forget about the small steps. Let's have radical steps. Let's link CEO performance bonus to how gender diverse your leadership pipeline is and your overall talent pipeline is. I guarantee you, we will see very, very quick action if we do that. And number three, the time for small talk and small action is over. We need to pair bold thinking with very big, visible commitments. Look, gender parity has never been higher on the agenda for a lot of companies, governments, and we've also done great strides, but sometimes good intentions are just not good enough. We need not only a change in numbers, we need a change in mindset. We need a change in behavior, and we need a change in cultures. These things take time.

Dolores Semeraro:

They make me think of the situations that I've seen recently in several Tourism destinations, very high profile tourism destinations where they have put women in position of power with big, big, noisy titles, and I've been wondering whether they have actually enabled them to really perform. How many tourism destinations are sort of jumping on the train of putting women in leadership positions and actually failing to equip them with the right tools, and actually setting them up for failure rather than for success. And I wonder if, if that's what they're doing, they're doing right now, are they putting women in position of power, but not exactly equipping them with the right tools to perform.

Aradhana Khowala:

I don't know if I would give credit to the decision makers to be really thinking this through and doing it, because let's face it, we have a host of cultural and systemic barriers, and unless you deal with them, you are really setting women for failure. And this is not just our sector or industry, right the glass Cliff phenomena. It is widely researched. If you put women too soon without the structural and cultural backing they need to perform on their jobs, you it is a recipe for disaster, and you see that in many, many different sectors, not just tourism,

Dolores Semeraro:

but in tourism, especially within the regenerative conversation, women have been the early adopters. And that is something, to me, that strikes a chord, because is this is something that, in a way, it calls back to, I mean, I'm not a mother, but it does call back to a sort of protective mechanism that, you know motherhood does. Imagine women protecting planet Earth, you know, mothers protecting other mothers and and creating that system in place, that that ensures that life continues to thrive, that we don't exploit resources that we live according to nature. Do you think that having that conversation amongst regenerative tourism female leaders is a conversation that sees? You know sees is a conversation of the moment, or sees or is based on a long term impact.

Aradhana Khowala:

This is fascinating, because I will answer your question, but can I go back to the earlier point that you were making in terms of where do you see true gender equality happen? Because it does happen in tourism, and I think that's that is fascinating. And you know where it does happen, it happens in the informal economy, where women actually dominate. But I'm talking about street hawkers, I'm talking about the local Sook mom and pop stores, the guides, the the, you know, the artisanal craft hubs. Women are the backbone in these places. They run the place right. But this leadership is rarely recognized, and it's definitely not compensated appropriately, because, guess what? They're absent from the formal, proper structures which shape tourism policy. So you have as an example a successful little shop that this woman is that that is own, owned and run by this woman, let's say handicraft store, right? She should be considered a key player in the local tourism landscape, but she lacks the representation in tourism boards. She lacks the access to loans to grow her business. She is excluded from formal decision making processes, policy discussions, so she doesn't have the resources. And if you think about it, 70 to 85% of our business is that. I'm talking small, medium, micro businesses, right? But this is changing, and that is a good thing. And we increasingly have women who are coming up front as boutique hotel owners, as ecotourism operators, as travel tech entrepreneurs. And unlike in larger corporations, in small, medium, micro enterprises, there is a lot more leadership flexibility for women. However, they face the same barriers that most companies do, access to funding, mentorship, market exposure, which really impedes their ability to grow. Now I want to come to your question on early adopters of regenerative tourism, 100% they were all women, and they were women from the indigenous communities, because, guess what, they inherently intuitively understood the deep reciprocal relationship between tourism nature. And culture. You know, these are women who have long practiced regeneration, not extraction, and they have done this long before the term became a trendy thing. You know, they look at tourism as a means to preserve, restore and celebrate the natural, cultural and social capital of their lands. And I guess if we want to have a pathway towards regenerative tourism, we need to embrace, embrace it, and we need to embed those practicing practices in tourism's current financial models. Because it can't just be a feel good feel good initiative, right? It needs to be profitable by design, and it also goes back to what you said about what a lot of destinations are doing wrong. Look, if you look at the challenges and the shortcomings that we have faced with sustainability as a concept, how can we be sure that regeneration is going to be any different? It's a very valid question. But in any business which is for profit, when you don't have results that are delivered, you hold the leadership accountable, and that's exactly what we need to do in the tourism sector. Sustainability in tourism hasn't just fallen short. It has failed on a structural level, and leadership needs to bear much of the responsibility for that failure our collective leadership and I hold myself accountable in that we have prioritized short term gains and incremental fixes instead of the deep, systemic change that we really, really need. One of the biggest flaws has been that we have focused on volume over value, we are constantly chasing the higher visit numbers instead of creating meaningful, sustainable experiences that actually benefit the people who travel and the communities where people travel to. So this obsession over quantity, you know, over quality is actually led to everything that is wrong in the world today, in the world of tourism, over tourism, resource depletion, exploitation of destinations, and leaving communities a lot worse off than when they start. So we are stuck in outdated business models that are still relying on extractive practices without having a plan for regenerating them.

Dolores Semeraro:

I believe that we are on where we are setting ourselves on the way to wash off. You know, the the narrative of regenerative tourism, as much as what the sustainable tourism, and sustainability in tourism has had in the past, and I've had podcast conversations over the last few weeks as we are recording season four, where many of the podcast guests have actually secretly on the podcast. But yeah, obviously it's it's public, but they have admitted more that they have. They have recognized this very dangerous pattern where conversations around regenerative tourism are now assuming the same tones of that have that have led the conversation of sustainability and sustainable tourism into greenwashing. We want to make sure that these conversations that need to happen. I mean, we need to talk to each other, we need to, we need to brainstorm, we need to, we need to strategize, we need to pull each other's ideas. But at the same time, we also want to come away, and we want to preserve this conversation from becoming a trend obsessed train, so to speak, right? And this is where I'm really challenging my speakers on on the podcast, to find the best solution. How can we do that? Or how could we do that?

Aradhana Khowala:

Oh, okay, that's an interesting one. Let's think real, actionable solutions. I can think of a few. Number one, be transparent measure to manage record and report, if that means using AI, use AI, use tech and make it all open source. Stop producing really dreary, boring sustainability reports, which are 200 pages long. It only has good news with pictures of CEOs and their favorite people. Nobody reads them. Save some trees instead, and lots of man hours and money. Number two, gamify. Make it fun, guys. When you gamify, you shift the focus from past. The consumption to active participation. Imagine if tourists could earn regeneration points when you travel by participating in local conservation or cultural projects, and that is redeemable for future trips. And I'm talking real money. Make it real. It encourages a traveler to engage in sustainable actions, making them feel like they're part of the solution, rather than just a consumer of a product. So gamify and make it fun. Number three, simplify. Stop making things more layered, hierarchical, complex and, you know, bureaucratic. We don't need so many multiple overlapping committees and authorities to discuss regenerative tourism. We don't stop being at international forums and conferences on sustainable tourism and just talking about what has been done so far. We know we have enough of the why. We need to see the how. That's number three, number four. Go big or go home. We need large scale, transformative changes. So stop telling your marketing team and and stop making them amplify all your short term economic benefits of traditional tourism methods, right, and all the little incremental methods that you're implementing in your company. And definitely don't talk about your pilot projects, because guess what? Pilot projects are not enough anymore. And also don't question the cost of implementing a lot of these practices. And start wondering who's going to pay for it, because you're saying no before you say yes, just do it guys. And finally, diversity is a real thing. Guys engage people. And I don't just mean women. I mean diversity of thought. Engage people with diverse and conflicting opinions, which are different to yours. As a leader, if all your stakeholders are saying the same thing, there is something wrong. If your most passionate people are silent, there is something wrong. I'm being controversial. But really calling out green washing or the fear that green washing might be called out is not such a bad thing. Dolores the biggest deterrent is fear of being judged and fear of being called out, because inadvertently, it forces a return to basic human decency. To your question on, how do you move beyond trends. I honestly don't know. I don't know, but I will tell you this, governments will change policy if they think there is a strong public backing behind it. Look, I always say this, it's not enough as a leader to just do your job. You need to take people on a journey with you. I always say this, you need to turn people on.Unless people are turned on, we don't open your eyes, we don't open our head, we don't open our heart, and unless we open our eyes, heart and mind, we have no chance in hell of influencing behavior and to have a change in mindset towards regenerative growth, we need to turn people on. We need an audacious, radical rethink of how we operate anything else is only going to be a cosmetic fix, like Botox and fillers,

Unknown:

but

Dolores Semeraro:

but it does make me think of a point you made earlier. It's about this fear of judgment, and I'm just about, I'm just in the middle of a research, and I'm reading about what is called Safe psychology, so when people feel safe, they can truly express themselves, and sometimes even in the most unexpected situations, whether they're professional or personal or social people, for fear of judgment, they seek to conform, and they stop expressing their true opinions, even even just voicing a doubt, and because people stop voicing their doubts, okay? Is this? Are they doing the right thing? Is this right? Is this actually doing any good to XYZ? So I think we have created, mediatically speaking, a culture of fear, where people, all kinds of people, the like the, I would say, the doers and the spectators, because there are the ones who do things. They go about their day by doing, and others, they go about their day and by watching others doing something right. And this is happening a lot in our industry and especially around the conversations of, you know, regenerative tourism and practices, true practices, true value. And I feel that people have...it's almost like the dog, the story of the dog that bites his tail, right? We have created a mediatic monster that that makes people fear that if they speak up, or if they dare to judge something that is outside the voice of, you know, the common voice, they are going to be judged. They are going to be attacked, so they better shut up and go with it, and go with everyone. And I fear this is happening. This is what this is when trends become monster machine and turn against us. This is the time of the year that you see in tourism. A lot of blogs and a lot of articles going out with trends for next year, trends for 2025 tourism trend you cannot miss. These are dangerous interpretations, because it makes people conform to those five elements that people are claiming to be the trend to follow. So I hope that with the conversations we're having on the podcast, we are shining a light on the other voices, not just the voices that are filling and feeding the trends right. And as a person that you know has traveled the world. You constantly travel the world, and I've seen other podcasts of yours when you were interviewed, and the podcast interviewer was asking you, How do you balance your sustainability act towards as opposed to your travel amount? - I just found it a very meh question, because it's it's obvious, it's obvious that people who travel on a global scale and have impact in so many forums are actually generating value that then gets perpetuated, that gets amplified by the people you meet. If you sit down in your home studio and you don't meet anyone, don't talk to anyone, how can you generate value to really put forward your message. So I I command that vision of yours, and really think that you are walking your talk. And if you look at just for the, let's say, just to close this conversation, which I know can go on and on and on, because I'm passionate about it, you're passionate about it. So it definitely calls for another interview on the podcast open doors all the time. Where do you see that vision really making an impact through your work? Like, where do you want to go?

Aradhana Khowala:

So this is fascinating. There are so many things that I can pick up, but I agree with you, 100% that the personal carbon footprint is never going to move the emissions needle, even it sounds, you know, morally the right thing to do, it's not enough, right? That's point number one. Second is, I think we need structural changes at every level, from grassroots to boardrooms. And I love the point that you made about who is talking about regenerative tourism, right? Look, we need people who have actually studied tourism talking about regenerative tourism. We need boards that are ready to step away from the outdated mindset of maximizing short term profits at all costs and instead focusing on, you know, visionary leadership. So that's why I say we need structural changes at every level, from grassroots to the boardrooms. With the boardrooms, I think we need boards that actually not only understand regenerative principles, but actually champion them. And then we need a societal level understanding of what it means to be, to be regenerative. Yeah, we just need to define, I guess, long term value as not only economic health, but environmental, cultural and social health. It needs to be a lot more holistic when it comes to the vision. Look, I believe regeneration is not an idealistic dream. It is actually becoming an imperative and businesses, countries, destinations, that fail to adopt this mindset will end up paying the price in the long run, through reputational damage, through environmental harm, or at some point through social backlash. It's going to happen at some point. So think about not just how to grow fast. Think about how can you grow well, now I'm not saying we stop focusing on financial success. I'm just saying we need to reframe it and to continue on that chain of thought from a vision perspective. I would love to tell anyone listening, especially if there are young people listening in don't underestimate the power of your vision. There will always be pressure to conform, as you said. But let me tell you, the leaders who will shape the future will be not those who chase quick profits. They will be the one. Teachers who will challenge the status quo, who will redefine what success really means. Start small experiment and be willing to fail, but always stay committed to your bigger vision. But in the long term, if you ask me, I envision a radically transformed tourism industry, which is going to be driven by unprecedented innovation and bold, moonshot ideas that can rapidly, you know, scale through advanced technology and everything that we have at our disposal today.

Dolores Semeraro:

Where do you see this happening nowadays, under your eyes, or perhaps in some of the organizations you're you're working with

Aradhana Khowala:

there are lots of countries I think, that are doing a great job. The example that we were talking about early on, where you include tourists as a part of the regenerative agenda. Copenhagen is doing it with Copen pay, where you actually collect points for sustainable behavior, and it can be converted into money during your stay. I think a fantastic example. There are many others. New Zealand is probably leaps and bounds ahead of many countries when it comes to true regenerative practices, because guess what? They have rules in place to make sure the Maori culture is preserved, not just at a superficial level, but in everything that the country does in terms of tourism, many, many other examples

Dolores Semeraro:

in this conversation today, if we, if we are to wrap up, it's almost impossible. We've touched on so many topics and so many points. I've taken plenty of notes myself. I see that there's a conversation that continues to fuel the interest of many players in the industry, and that is around the the true and the reality, the truth behind the gender reality in the tourism industry. So to say, within the name of the podcast, that is a conversation that will certainly have another, that will have more outlets on this, on this channel, we'll have more opportunities to talk about that. And I love your point, and I think I'll, I'm going to bring it forward, if anything is to stop talking about what we've done and start talking about what we're going to do. And I think this is perhaps my, my biggest takeaway from this conversation, because it's such a simple such a simple phrase, but really defines many of the conversations that I see happening at trade shows, conferences and summit and you at you yourself. I mean, you attend many of those as well. What do you just as the last question, because I'm always controversial in these questions. You know, what do you feel like doing when you hear someone on stage that is yet again, saying the same thing over and over again and is just speaking for the sake of of you know, to hear his own voice or her own voice, per se,

Aradhana Khowala:

walking out is always an option. It's like, I'm out of here. I don't belong to this conversation Exactly. And perhaps in most sectors, in most jobs, you will have people who have studied that talking about it. Why is it that when it comes to regenerative tourism, everyone is an expert without studying tourism, without researching it or without implementing actionable strategies on the ground. So I think that's the first step, but that's only one step, because what I'm saying is we should not only have people who are PhDs and researchers talking about regenerative growth agenda, because we know that fails too Right? Because a big problem, why a lot of the solutions are not working, a big problem, why the common public is not on a journey with you when it comes to the regenerative agenda is it's often academics who have tons of conceptual knowledge about regenerative agenda, who are talking about important things, but their delivery is so disconnected with the common person that you are not telling a good story. So you need, I think, a very good balance of leaders who are experts in the field, but who are also powerful, meaningful storytellers, who are doing it with the right intention, not just to ensure their company stock is to go up, is going to go up by X percent after that interview, but doing it because they really believe it's time for a change, unless we have structural change, our industries don't.

Dolores Semeraro:

Couldn't agree more truly, I love your point of saying if your community or if your destination is not there with you to achieve, they're not with you on a journey, it means you fail, because. Communicate the solutions to how, and you're a stop at the why, and people are looking and they can't relate, because when something is so far from you, you don't relate, you don't care, and when you don't care, you don't take action. It's such a simple, simple equation, I probably will not need to edit anything, because it's impossible. There's so much value all around I hope to have you soon again on the podcast.

Aradhana Khowala:

Look forward to it anytime, all for women's support. So next year, let's do it again. Absolutely. Thank you so much and all the best for everything ahead of you. Thank you, Dolores, keep well. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Dolores Semeraro:

Thank you for joining me today on the podcast. What were your takeaways from today's episode? Get in touch with me on the podcast. Show Notes. You'll find all the handles. Let me know your thoughts, and if you're on it, take a moment to share a review on Apple podcasts or your podcast app of choice. You can find me on social media directly at Dolores Semeraro, or you can find this podcast handle at truth behind travel podcast, I look forward to having you on board until the next episode. Be well and Farewell, my friends, you.