Truth Behind Travel Podcast

Experiential Hospitality at its best with Catarina Varão

• Season 4 • Episode 74

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Dolores Semeraro interviews founder of UniqueStays Catarina Varão on true experiential hospitality ultimately leads to social growth. 


Portugal-based Catarina is passionate traveler by profession, hotel curator by vocation, dedicated to an adventurous lifestyle that inspires and teaches, in contrast to an immersive and “slow” pace of life. Full-time mother and part-time dreamer, whose main activity is consultancy in luxury hospitality and tourism. Hotelier, designer, trainer, coach, PTO (nor just “CEO” jack of all trades) of the company TH2 and founder of the luxury hotel soft brand UniqueStays. Graduated in Tourism Management, postgraduate in Tourism Products, Master in Hotel Management with Character and PhD in Geography. 

On this episode:

The Importance of Guest Experience

  • The value of “time” in the hospitality industry and the need to focus on guest experience, where even small activities can make a significant impact on guest experience if done with dedication.
  • The loss of human touch in industrialized and standardized hospitality practices.

Sustainability and Local Involvement

  • The challenges of industrializing and standardizing hospitality, emphasizing the importance of local community involvement, calling out The McDonaldization of the world and the rise of small boutique hotels.
  • The importance of involving local communities in decision-making processes and the need to respect local habits and traditions while teaching sustainable practices.

Authenticity vs. Staged Experiences

  • The difference between authentic and staged experiences with the importance of raw moments over  uber-staged experiences that repel tourists rather than attract them. 
  • The importance of genuine interactions and experiences in creating a memorable guest experience.


Connect with Catarina on: 

www.th2.com.pt 

Dolores Semeraro is a sought-after international tourism keynote speaker and sustainable tourism marketing professional.

Dolores actively works in the tourism and travel conference space as a keynote speaker and moderator, gracing the stages of international tourism summits and trade shows.

As a professional keynote speaker, Dolores’ speaking topics encompass sustainable digital marketing for the tourism industry, how to establish digital mastery, and learn how to identify today’s traveler’s needs.

During the pandemic, Dolores launched her podcast show named ‘Truth Behind Travel Podcast’ where she regularly interviews tourism and travel industry leaders and representatives on how to rebuild the future of travel.

In the recent years, Dolores has continued to work and live on beautiful islands such as Mauritius, where she started her tourism and hospitality marketing consultancy working closely with the Mauritian luxury hospitality sector as corporate trainer.

According to her international clients, Dolores is a gifted trainer and intuitive workshop facilitator.

She is now based in Europe where she actively works as keynote speaker and corporate trainer in the tourism industry.

www.doloressemeraro.com

dolores@doloressemeraro.com

Instagram @dolores_semeraro

LinkedIn @dolores.sem

Dolores Semeraro:

Welcome back to Truth Behind Travel, my friends, my guest today is an incredible hospitality entrepreneur born and raised in Portugal on the magic island of Azores *that is on my bucket list, by the way, she's a passionate traveler by profession, hotel curator by vocation, and dedicated her life to an adventurous lifestyle to inspire and guide like minded hoteliers. Some may describe her a talented hotelier, a creative designer, a gifted trainer, as a founder of th two and also founder of the luxury hotel soft brand Unix days, but here today, she is more than this. She embodies a true hospitality spirit that put people first, and with her disarming moments of truth, she is able to evoke a time and space where hoteliers were true to their work and their words. So join me as I welcome Katarina voro, welcome back to season four of truth behind travel podcast today, my podcast guest is not just a woman in travel or a woman in tourism is someone that has embodied hospitality and avant garde. I'd say, you know, innovative hospitality, sustainable hospitality from the very beginning. Welcome. Catarina, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.

Catarina Varao:

Thank you so much for the invitation. Dolores, I am thrilled to have this conversation in your podcast, which I've been listening and I follow for quite a long time now since we met, I admire your work, and I feel very happy to be here and to showcase with you what what we are doing in Portugal.

Dolores Semeraro:

I've been to Portugal. I've slow-traveled across the country, north to south for about two and a half months last year, I've seen the realities of good hospitality, bad hospitality, seasonal hospitality and missed opportunities in hospitality. And before we got into, you know, the podcast questions that I'm going to drill you with, like, I really would like you to take us a bit of a journey of what was your How did your path look like as you were growing into the industry? What made you the professional that you are today?

Catarina Varao:

I always like to share the story of my reality as an insular so I grew up and lived until I was 18 in the Dolores, the islands in the middle of the Atlantic, and my father was always very keen in celebrating each occasion. Instead of just doing some random parties or going out for dinner, he would like to take us out to sleep at hotels. And since we are in an island, it's ridiculous, because sometimes we just slept five kilometers from home, so it was too close, but we felt all the enchantments, starting from there. I remember me and my sister being, of course, all excited about how is the bedroom. What are those small soaps and amenities that they have? In the the bathrooms, and then in the morning, being thrilled about the breakfast and the different things that they serve in the morning or even in the mini bar. And this, this is, I think it was a good influence in my hospitality enchantment thing. And from then on, of course, I've studied well, I had the university degree in the mainland. So I I live in Portugal for since I was 18, Portugal, mainland, and then I did some post graduations and and the master degree in Spain of hotels, con character. It was a university European University master degree, and now I'm doing a PhD in geography, so I haven't ceased learning. So I like learning. I'm a curious mind, and in in the middle of of this learning and and developing, I understood that all tell yours struggle, not only with, well, the human resources and the people that work there, but also in in terms of creativity. So I like to define myself as an hotel curator, adding some wow factor to the hotel. So what is it that you have that that's different? And I'm not talking just some fancy pieces of art or furniture or design architect work. I'm talking about the involvement of people, and that is completely related to sustainability, because if you want to be a hotelier, it just doesn't start about by buying a build and doing a four wall and one bedroom unit. It's much more than that. It's being present. It's the culture of the company. It's what you have to offer. And I always ask these hoteliers, when I start working with them, what do you have that's so different to offer, or what is your dream guest? And these two questions alone make them think about, Do I want to be here every day with my guests? Do I enjoy this? Do I like to invite people over? And I actually do this question, guests are not credit cards that move. They are people. And that's my obsession. My obsession is the guest experience all the way. Does it involve decoration? Does it involve training? Does it involve talking about the talking with the the hotel managers, and reshaping the company's culture? What does it involve? But in the end, it should be like a movie. Everything is set, the temperature, the lights, the music, whoever is there, the authors, the filmmakers. It should be like, like like a movie, because you're creating memories.

Dolores Semeraro:

What a great obsession to have! I love the idea of and this, I'm a very strong advocate about it. money can come back, money can be returned, money can be reimbursed. Time not time is the currency of the hospitality industry, and when the hospitality industry will finally realize that the only thing they are handling is the time of their guest. They will truly embrace what guest experience looks like

Catarina Varao:

absolutely, even if it's just for a small activity. So the excuse that we don't have staff, we don't have money. We don't have the resources. It's actually, in fact, just an excuse. Because if you have the vocation, if you if you're dedicated to this hospitality, to serving and to time, and the best that you make of it, and the the time you're providing to your your guests, then you get creative. So these small things just require preparation, and this anticipation of the guests is magical, and the guests can feel it. Someone was waiting for me, someone prepared this for me to have the best time ever while I'm here. And this preparation is luxury. This is what luxury is. Well, for my understanding, it's not just the gold and the glitter and then the Michelin stars. It's about this dedication, this, this, this preparation of people that work in the industry, right?

Dolores Semeraro:

Absolutely. And it makes me think of the places where, in a way, I was expecting it and it didn't happen. Where do you think this is not the case? Where do you think this incredible guest experience mindset does not happen nowadays?

Catarina Varao:

When we tend to industrialize or standardize everything, a human touch gets lost in the way, although we do want things to get easy and and accessible and fast to reply to our guests and be there to our guests. But when we tend to forget what each person or each location, it's about geography. It's about sustainability as well, because it's about the place. When we forget about what the place has to offer or the involvement of the locals, this can be lost. And I'm actually a bit afraid of chains. And I'm not just talking about hotel chains. I'm talking about the McDonaldization of the world, the fast consumption of the world, the bad guys that we say it's the globalization and the standardization of everything, which means that everything looks the same no matter where you are. There's some comfort in that when you're in rush, but it's sad that you don't know if you had dinner in in Switzerland or in South Africa, because you just hate from the same of the same chain, but we see that small boutique hotels, cabins, luxury cabins are rising like never before, and rural houses, nature, nature, manor houses, antique palaces and monasteries being rebuilt, and what do they do there? They convert it into boutique hotels, luxury hotels. Actually, the luxury service is there because we do like the comfort of our grandmother's home, but we don't like the humidity part. We like the heated floor, we like the heated towels, we like the amenities we but we do like the smell of the fireplace. We do like the sound of the voice of the people from there that speak calmly. We like the silence of the environment, not like ambulance and alarms talking all the time, sounding all the time and and that's, that's the mix. So I believe right now that big hotels have a lot to learn with small hotels and vice versa, vice versa. If these small hotels are being built or developed, considering what, what are the demands and what values stay they can enrich the experience to the guest. And if the big hotels, instead of having everything so standard, so quick, so well inside a box, if they look at what the guest actually values, maybe they will be less complicated. They'll be more at ease. It's about being at ease. People want to be at ease. And people look for these small boutique hotels, because you you can actually know the owner of the property, and you stay and sit and drink whiskies with them until 4am with the owner. You don't you barely see a director from the from a normal hotel, let alone the owner. So this is the magical part, because when the owner involved gets involved, when it trans, it can transmit the values, and then, then the culture of the company will grow in a correct direction,

Dolores Semeraro:

I believe, isn't that culture one of the pillars of social sustainability. And if you look what is allowed and what is not right from the beginning, if it starts from, if it starts from the ground up, who do you think has a best shot at building sustainably, the big hotels with a big budget, or the small hotels with the with a closer relationship with their people.

Catarina Varao:

Absolutely, that's it. This is the relationship with their people. And when consultants sustainable consultants, start doing work with with hotels, it's magical that the first thing they do is to sit and talk with each employee, and they feel valued. They feel heard, even if they are not doing anything at all. That concerns hospitality. Just by the fact that someone sits one on one with them, it's huge. It's very impactful. It will improve whichever relationship he has with the company. It's one of the things that I I've lots of pleasure doing so is, is connecting with the people that work in in your tails. I actually try to run away from from the term human resources, because they are not just resources. They are human. And trying to have this mentorship with one of. One guests, one on one employees and well, understanding that they are our first guests, actually from the perspective that they know everything about the hotel, and they are the players. They are the ones that that will interfere on the image and the experience of that hotel, to the clients to the final guests, and we should, we should talk more often to these people, not just about paying them at the end of the month, not just expecting and and and demanding this and that result, but actually understanding what do they have to offer to add to the company? What are actually their ambitions? Why are they working in our hotel and not another? And try to get in touch with them, because then they know someone that could add something I don't know, a musician, a cooker, a guided tour, and if we work in as a community and involving the locals, rather than bringing someone from abroad to develop this and that it's all about sustainability,

Dolores Semeraro:

This is the sustainability mindset, actually, If anything, it brings me back into our conversation on we want to make sure that local communities are empowered to participate in the decision making process of what's going on in the region, in the area where they live and work, and in many cases, these decisions happens somewhere else and someone from the outside of that of that specific region comes in and says, Okay, from now on, we have to operate in this way, because this is sustainability, rather than sitting at the table and listening to locals telling them no. Sustainability here works in this and that way, it's based on seasons. It's based on the natural responses to spring, summer, autumn, winter. It's based on the water flow when there is water where there isn't, when it rains, when it doesn't rain, it's based on the type of agriculture we can conduct, learning about land right the if I've traveled across the mountain region and the coastal regions of Portugal, and the difference between even the soil was incredible. Some soils were not agricultural friendly, so to speak. Others, instead were very rich and very

Catarina Varao:

The locals know exactly how and where to make nourishing. things grow, instead of imposing, as you were saying, Dolores, it's about empowering people and trying to learn from them. But there's something very sensitive about it, and let's, let's put our feet on the ground. In in some in some sense, we all like to learn, especially because we are entrepreneurs, we are curious minds, we like to develop and learn. But some destinations, or some people, they are not so eager to learn, especially destinations that are not used to welcoming guests, welcoming tourists. They they feel that they are just foreigns and they are Strangers. Strangers. There's the in Portuguese we called ishtranjeru. And ishtrangeru comes from the word ishtranju, which is a strange and we tend to look to tourists as they are strangers. This happens when the tourist destinations are not fully developed. So the sustainability here comes not only from understanding how it's done there and trying to respect the habits and the traditions, but also trying to look or teach ways to preserve those learn, teaching without imposing how we should preserve their ways, their habits, or trying to make them understand the impact of meeting me eating meat every day, in every meal. And this is a two way street, not just one way that you impose, not just complying standards, but a two way street. And sometimes this is very challenging. Sometimes it's challenging because to to understand and to work with locals, you need to be with them so they do understand the benefits of everything that they are learning and everything that the world is developing. And in the sense, I'm afraid that we are called the ones that are responsible for globalization in their property, in their lands. And. And that's not the what we mean. What we mean is to create good conditions for the locals in first place, rather than for tourists. And that is the main focus of sustainability. That should be the main concern, the priority one. And the other day, I was having this discussion with with some peers in a local government and well, while they were saying, we are not developing events, we are not doing anything that's special because the locals won't come, I say, okay, but you cannot create things just for tourists. And if the locals won't come, maybe you're not talking to the locals as you should, or in a way that they find it appealing, because it should start by the locals. We should, it should start by improving the quality of life of the tourists.

Dolores Semeraro:

I like your point of creating events and opportunities to, you know, entertainment, cultural enrichment that appeals to locals first. And I would say, I would add to that, that it's not just the appeal factor that needs to be sort of considered and packaged in it's the pride factor, because a local activity, a local festival, a market or a singing competition, whatever it is that represents or want or aims to represent, a local culture should, instead, should, should create a sense of pride in the local people. If it's not, if it doesn't create a sense of pride, then it's just a tourist activity. That's it. It's not an entertainment. It's not an experience. It doesn't represent a local culture. In fact, in many cases, I've come across examples of inappropriate cultural representation where the culture also to speak elements were made like puppet you know, were puppetizes. That's even a word, and in that sense, locals will not recognize themselves as something that they are proud of. They, in fact, distance themselves from it. And tourists will come here and will come into a destination and hoping to find that specific thing that is meant to be a signature activity or a signature experience, and they would instead find a staged performance rather than an authentic experience. So stage performance versus authentic experience. Where have you seen this going wrong? where have you seen potentials of incredible experiences that were taken they were taken wrongly, and they were developed in the in the, you know, in the opposite way,

Catarina Varao:

unfortunately, it happens. So we have the sense that the guest, the guest understands that that's the problem, because we want to stage it and make it feel so perfectly that we we try to to fool the gas the tourists, and when the tourist feels like he's been fooled, and the story was not like that, And those guys are just actors. They are not locals. When the things are too over, over, overreacting, the the tourist feels like a fool, and they want to to know authentic places. So when you try to stage it, you're you're repulsing more than attracting. Don't ever forget why you start. And even for some that say, oh, but we are doing this for so long, we have no story. Everybody has a story. A family has a story, a context, why it happens, a why, at least a why. And if you have a why, the who will naturally come, because then all these storytellings come because the players are not marketeers. Marketeers know that we need a story. The players are just players. So if they are playing in daily basis, doing their thing, what is this thing about authenticity? I don't know what is this about sustainability. I'm just talking with my cow in the morning while I'm milking her. This. It's a normal thing I do, and I pet her and I kiss her good night. That's the thing I do, and that's why we have this wonderful milk. Is this, is this sustainability? Is this authenticity? And when I have people over, I ask them to to please say hello to my cow and take a seat and and taste milk or whatever. Is this staged? Or is this raw? Because we search for raw. I think this is the thing, of course, in unique states, the soft brand that that I found it. And we don't have people milking cows in all the properties. We don't have people doing pottery all the time, but we do enjoy that. They are proud to to do their own bread in the morning and to brew their coffee, and some even to produce their own wine. And they like to have guests in their table for dinner, and there are the first ones to play guitar by the fireplace the the guests. And it's not a lie, and I'm talking about hotels that charge 500 euros per night, 600 euros per night. They have fireplaces in the bathtubs, not in the corner of the bedroom. It's like the continuity of the bathtub. And this is, this is the wow factor. Of course, it's architecture, it's decoration, but it's the this dedication of the people that make things authentic, actually.

Dolores Semeraro:

Well, one thing is to showcase an authentic experience by going and finding raw moments of true life, you know, real life, and then showcase it to the world. And the moment you showcase it to the world, you are already sort of distributing it to the world to know of. So the question is, how much of this, how many of these raw experiences are meant to be subject of storytelling in tourism, and how many of those experiences instead are better stayed as better kept as hidden gems, you know? So it's always this, this, this controversy of showcasing to promote authentic, authenticity, versus protecting hidden gems, so that you can call them hidden gems. And what is in the tourism of today a hidden gem,

Catarina Varao:

this, this ambiguity, or this parallel idea of showing, showcasing versus protecting? Well, it all depends on how much you are able to showcase, what you want to protect. What is the measurement specialists tends to do these studies about the saturation of a place. We are all afraid of mass tourism. We are all tired of lines to see things, to spend hours in line to go to a point of interest. And this hidden gems concept, it burdens a lot, because it's starting to be it's starting. It's a trends that that, it actually irritates me a bit, this hidden jam, I know the hidden gem. Come see this is an hidden jam, and then you have companies just dedicated for hidden gems. But I'm this traveler that likes this hidden gems because I don't like people. I don't like, well, crowded. I don't like crowds. I don't like places that are too crowds. It's arrogant to think that they are the tourists and we are not. They are the lines and we are not. You are the traffic, you are the masses. You are and it's time for us to be humble, to understand that it's not theirs, it's not the others. We are the others. So the the sooner we understand that, the sooner we will learn how to protect what it's interesting, because everything can be showcased. It just needs to know how to showcase it and for the right people, because people have interested in the most various things that let's have this balance here on being overprotective to the point that you don't allow development. Because when you're when you're in this state of mind, maybe you're not developing the right thing, not over developing, you're not developing the right thing. And and in the other hand, actually running away from mass tourism. that's everything, that's every place wants. We don't want mass tourism, but do understand that we are the masses.

Dolores Semeraro:

The vision of unique stays. You have been a general manager or a hotel manager, or in general, any management roles in within, within the hotel ecosystem, you've had it, you've done it, you've you've you went through it, you've grown into this professional, diverse persona. And then unique stays, what is that about?

Catarina Varao:

So unique states is about meaningful stay so as as I stated, try to promote this life at ease. And we, we get together with our tellers that are like minded. They, they think like we do. They, they, they feel the same way they need. They they understand that there's a need for a coherent service. So what we like most about unique stays is that we work for with the hoteliers, but we work for guests. We are both working for guests together. So in one side, there's this business to business, working with the hoteliers, or understanding their essence, their character. And we work with guests, understanding what do they need? How do we reach out to them? In the end, we we want to suggest the hotel that suits the guest best, and and that's that's our purpose. We, we, we promote slow living, we promote slow travel. And we, we want to consider ourselves ambassadors of of this and spreading the word.

Dolores Semeraro:

What would you say is UniqueStays secret talent?

Catarina Varao:

creativity, but creativity so vain, so vague, it's around being inventive. We are not afraid to fail. Sometimes we lack of courage to develop things because it's different.

Dolores Semeraro:

I encourage all the people listening to this podcast to head over to the show notes and have a look at the link of unique stays, which I will put in the show notes for you guys. And have a look at the world that Catarina has created with these Hoteliers and the experiences that are there that are featured. And just leave you wonder if these experiences are featured. Just imagine what it is not. Just imagine what it is still a hidden gem, a true it can never be a hidden gem if, if it's shook, you know featured somewhere, the moment you feature is not hidden anymore, right? So great. Thank you so much. Catarina, this was a fantastic conversation. If you would leave the podcast listeners with a word of wisdom on guest experience, what would you leave them with, like a suggestion, a recommendation, something that comes from yourheart.

Catarina Varao:

I cannot be completely impartial from my business perspective or intent, but I feel that more and more we are discovering the hotels existing in platforms, and then we we try to contact these hoteliers directly. And that's my call. Do contact the hoteliers directly. So even against myself, contact your tellers directly and understand. And this is a message for both travelers and hoteliers. So every effort behind this moment where the client actually contacts the hotel, what it leads to this moment is the true, important and working thing in the process. So do contact one another directly, and do the work behind it, because the work for that to happen is huge on both sides. On both sides, either if you're a traveler, try to find something that's meaningful, that has something important and different to offer, and to the side in the side of the hotelier, work your way around, be different, not just one more of the earth and and stand out

Dolores Semeraro:

Amazing. Thank you so much, Catarina. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Catarina Varao:

Thank you Dolores.

Dolores Semeraro:

Thank you for joining me today on the podcast. I absolutely loved all the golden moments of truth today with Catarina. And if you also love this episode and want to get in touch with her. All you need to do is to head over to the show notes and Get in Touch before you go. Take a minute to share this podcast episode with your community, your friends, or with whoever you think needs to hear this today. Thank you for being here with me and my amazing podcast guests. I look forward to having you on board for the next episode. Soon. Farewell, my friends.