Truth Behind Travel Podcast

Measuring Success through Impact and Change in conversation with Sarah Payne from UnTours Fundation

• Dolores Semeraro • Season 4 • Episode 76

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Dolores Semeraro interviews Sarah Payne , Director of Impact at Untours Fundation - on her journey from an MBA in economic development to her current role, emphasizing the importance of impact with social, environmental and economical drive for entrepreneurs. 

An entrepreneur herself, Sarah believes passionately in using business as a force for good to create a more just, equitable, and regenerative world. She has also worked with a variety of nonprofits both in the United States and abroad to advance social change and alleviate poverty. Ever adventurous, Sarah loves to travel and enjoy the great outdoors. Sarah holds a Bachelor of Arts in World History from Messiah University and a Master of Business Administration in Economic Development from Eastern University.

In this episode:

Impact as a Currency for Entrepreneurs

  • Impact as a currency for entrepreneurs, and how stakeholders increasingly want to see positive impact from companies.
  • Integrating an impact mindset from the beginning, considering social, environmental, and economic impacts which encopasses the value of authenticity and transparency
  • Set realistic goals, start with one impact area, and build on the success as well as the importance of having a strong network and community support for entrepreneurs.

The Role of B Corps and the B Impact Assessment

  • The Foundation owns the world's first B Corp, Untours, and loves working with B Corps due to their verified impact track records.
  • Not all companies can or want to become B Corps but can still adopt impact-focused practices from the B Corp movement.
  • Highlighting the Foundation's approach to underwriting loans and the importance of creating an ecosystem of interdependent businesses particularly community-driven businesses and smaller enterprises.
  • Women are often more community-minded and impact-focused, balancing business demands with personal priorities.

Future Directions and Investments

  • to direct more investments into the places where travelers are going, creating an ecosystem for travelers to engage with the Foundation's impact work.
  • to provide accessible and flexible capital to small tourism businesses worldwide.

Dolores Semeraro is a sought-after international tourism keynote speaker and sustainable tourism marketing professional.

Dolores actively works in the tourism and travel conference space as a keynote speaker and moderator, gracing the stages of international tourism summits and trade shows.

As a professional keynote speaker, Dolores’ speaking topics encompass sustainable digital marketing for the tourism industry, how to establish digital mastery, and learn how to identify today’s traveler’s needs.

During the pandemic, Dolores launched her podcast show named ‘Truth Behind Travel Podcast’ where she regularly interviews tourism and travel industry leaders and representatives on how to rebuild the future of travel.

In the recent years, Dolores has continued to work and live on beautiful islands such as Mauritius, where she started her tourism and hospitality marketing consultancy working closely with the Mauritian luxury hospitality sector as corporate trainer.

According to her international clients, Dolores is a gifted trainer and intuitive workshop facilitator.

She is now based in Europe where she actively works as keynote speaker and corporate trainer in the tourism industry.

www.doloressemeraro.com

dolores@doloressemeraro.com

Instagram @dolores_semeraro

LinkedIn @dolores.sem

Dolores Semeraro:

Welcome back to season four of truth behind travel Podcast. I'm very, very happy to welcome you on the show. Hello, Sarah, how are you?

Sarah Payne:

I'm doing great. Thanks, Dolores, thank you for having me here.

Dolores Semeraro:

I'm glad we made time and we found a way to connect, because I really want to shine a light on not just on the work of the Foundation, but also on your role director of impact, and something that I believe it's a title that doesn't come by coincidence. So really want to talk a little bit about that. And before we start, would you give us a bit of an overview of your journey and what led you to this role?

Sarah Payne:

Absolutely, it's a great question, and I love that you picked up on that title and looking at the story behind it. So my journey began with a degree in a master's degree in business administration, so I got an MBA in economic development, thinking that I really wanted to move into the space of International Development, working on poverty alleviation and different corners of the globe, and that was really my focus. Was really passionate about development and poverty alleviation, and was pretty skeptical when I started my MBA about the role of for profit business in that work of making the world a better place. And in my first semester, I took a course on social entrepreneurship, where I learned all about social enterprises, businesses that are intentionally created to solve a social, environmental or economic need in the world. And it really opened my mind to the valid role of the for profit sector in changing the world for good. And I learned about certified B Corporations and all of these different types of businesses that are doing such great work around the world, that have proven impact, that uplift communities, that restore the environment, do all of these good things, and they simply do it through a for profit model, and that isn't inherently evil. So once my mind was open to working with business around positive impact that set me on a journey of moving into economic development at a local, sort of grassroots based nonprofit, and here in the United States and Pennsylvania, I worked there for five years, and specifically was consulting there with companies around their social and Environmental impact using tools like the B Corp certification assessment or the B impact assessment to help these entrepreneurs quantify and communicate and improve their impact. So I was doing that for five years, and then got the opportunity to join the unto us foundation in the director of impact role, which, as you mentioned, is sort of an interesting confluence of things. The organization was looking for someone to really kind of provide some leadership across the disparate parts of the foundation. So everything from managing our portfolio of investments to supporting the fundraising process to organizing operations, and so as an impact driven organization, that was kind of one meaning of it right, was to direct all of the impact that we do across these different areas, because it's all designed for impact as a foundation with the mission that we have the other side of it, though, was we wanted to leverage that experience that I had working specifically on social and environmental impact with companies. So being our director of impact and helping the companies that we invest in to do that work of measuring and managing their impact and thereby improving the impact of our entire investment portfolio, we invest only in social enterprises. So for us, impact is paramount. We were doing impact investing before that even became a term, and I'd be happy to go into the story of that a little bit. But everything that we do is about impact across the organization, and then also wanting to work deeply with our investees, the companies that we fund on their own impact. So my day to day is doing all of that. It's kind of a wide umbrella, but again, it all falls under this. We wanted to capture it as impact, because that's why we exist in the world.

Dolores Semeraro:

It certainly gives you a lot of space to interact with all kinds of ideas and even notions and principles that could, you know, push the entrepreneurs into developing their vision. And I'm wondering, I wonder if, if, if, impact would be a currency for them. You know, sometimes we, we look into the early stages of entrepreneurs, and when they, when they're just developing their ideas. They're putting their feet down on the ground. They're really moving their first few steps, and they're assessing the pro and cons. There are a lot of elements that are interfere, that can interfere and do interfere with their drive, right, with their with their desire and their strength to move forward. Who don't get discouraged. So I wonder one of them, of course, being the money, you know, lack of funds. This is where the foundation comes into play. And if impact would be a currency, how could we have entrepreneurs in tourism, you know, with big, great ideas to start thinking about impact currency and put aside for a moment, you know, everything else, including the money, so that they can focus on their vision.

Sarah Payne:

Absolutely, I think, as you said, impact is an incredible currency now more than ever, as people want to buy, from work, for and invest in companies with demonstrated positive impact, I can't state enough how much all of these stakeholders around business want to see the impact of your company, and beyond that, building an impact focused company, I think, is inherently rewarding to the entrepreneur. So I very much recommend starting to integrate an impact mindset, ideally when you're first designing the business, when you're designing your business model, also integrating that with an impact model. And when we say impact, it can mean a lot of different things. It can mean social impact, and that could be for your customers, or it can be for your employees, to the types of jobs you provide and the quality of those jobs. It can be environmental, and again, that could simply be through your operations, or it could be through a product that you're designing, or it could have economic impact. And then all of those intersect with each other too. So there are so many different ways to conceptualize impact. So I think for entrepreneurs, the first question is, what's the impact that you want to see in the world? And what are you specifically gifted and skilled with doing so if that falls into you know, I'm really good at creating excellent organizational culture, and I want to create a business that provides high quality jobs and gives back to the community. That's very different than going into a business saying I know that I already have a socially responsible company. I really want to figure out where I fit in the world of environmental change, for example. So there's so many different kind of entry points into this big word of impact. There's also kind of the governance side of things, of establishing a strong mission and having KPIs and measuring outcomes. So there's, there's a lot of different angles. But the first kind of, I think, point that I'll make here is to take it one step at a time. I think impact can be so daunting to entrepreneurs when they're thinking about, how do I create as I'm saying, this, this impact to business model, getting a foothold and getting started is the most important step. Your Success will start to build on itself, but that is also part of what your customers and your employees, your clients want to see investors in the company. They want to see that journey. I think today, more than ever, people really resonate with the story of your company and your personal why they want to understand. How did you come up with this idea? How did you figure out that your business idea could address this need in the world, and that, I think when you tell that story authentically and transparently, that is an amazing currency. That's something that, again, people want to see across the spectrum. And I can speak, for example, as you know, investor in my professional role here, when a company is able to articulate to us, this is the impact we want to create. Here's how we measure it. Here's our success in the past that goes such a long way. Obviously you need to have a sound business model. So I know we're trying to kind of put finances aside. I do have a saying, no margin, no mission. So you need a profit margin if you want to create an impact. So I don't want to downplay the importance of just having a very solid business model and sound business financials, but having that ability to talk about your impact in a quantified way is I can't overstate how important that is for a business, especially, you know, and bringing it back to the tourism industry, this is an industry with huge potential for positive impact, but we've also seen its potential to have negative impact in the world, just thinking, for example, of long haul flights, or thinking about tourist destinations where tourists aren't actually wanted, there is a lot of room for it to go astray. And so I think for tourism businesses specifically focusing on impact, that really sets you apart from all of those kind of negative perceptions about, you know, tourism being extractive, or tourism being damaging to the earth. If you can tell these narratives about the best of travel that you and I both know really well, and I'm sure your listeners do too, that it can be a huge, one of the biggest levers for change in the world, connecting people across barriers, putting people in a curious mindset when they travel, giving back to the communities where you operate, looking at local agency and helping communities develop themselves through tourism. I mean, I could go on in terms of the very. Positive impacts that tourism has. And so again, if you're a tourism entrepreneur, really tying yourself into those narratives of what the best of travel is.

Dolores Semeraro:

It kind of makes me think of the fears that an entrepreneur may face at the, you know, the very early stage, having a vision, having a good idea, it's it's probably one of the biggest gift nowadays, where we live in an industry like talking about into the tourism industry, where everything has been said and done, where people are hungry for good ideas, for new ideas. And I love your point of saying people invest in impact, because it carries that idea forward, an idea that maybe 10 people behind you might say, why didn't I not think of that? And then suddenly someone did. And you want to know, how did you work out that magic? Right? When do you see a good idea failing like I want, I want people to be inspired by this story, but also to stay real, to think, yes, of course, if I have a great idea, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that I will necessarily succeed. When does a good idea not succeed?

Sarah Payne:

That's a great question. And I think for a lot of impact minded entrepreneurs, one of the mistakes can be to try to do too much too quickly. So I hear that fear, and I think it's a real one, that entrepreneurs, they don't want to say that they're setting out to change the world, because, in fact, if they don't change the world, then everyone is going to ask, Why, what happened? You said you were going to do this, and you did it, and they don't want to be stuck with that. So I think there is definitely that fear of not being able to deliver on the impact promises that you make. So again, I think being very careful about what promises you make and how sort of your brand promise, right? And I think I would definitely say to go slowly and intentionally through that process. So again, if you're early in your impact journey, identify one thing that you want to do in your business differently that has a positive impact, one that you can quantify, one that makes sense for your business, one that you're personally passionate about. Do that and do it really well. And then once it's part of your business model, then you can, you know, kind of pick your head up again and look around for more opportunities again. When I go back to the different types of impact one of the best tools that I've seen for impact measurement and management is the B impact assessment, the tool that every certified B Corporation has to use and pass and the minimum score in order to become a B Corp. That assessment is broken into five different impact areas across governance, workers, community, environment and customers. So that's already one way that you can kind of hone in on, what impact do you want to focus on? Figure out for who you want to create that impact. Is it for your employees? Is it for your community members? Is it for the natural world? And then once you have that, you can start to get more specific. So again, if you're in the B impact assessment, you can start to drill down into different question areas and different themes. And then you can really find something that is very manageable so you don't bite off more than you can chew the other thing, and I'll probably say it later in the podcast as well. But doing entrepreneurship alone is always a challenge. So I think with when it comes to having fears like this and to facing challenges like this, having people in your corner, whether that is as formal as an advisory board, or as informal as being you know, part of different groups, your friends or entrepreneurs, things like that, having people that you can bounce ideas off of, and also just transparently share your journey and your questions is so valuable. I've heard this time and again from entrepreneurs, one of the best things that you can do for them as a resource provider is to create space for them to connect with one another, since so they don't feel alone. Because entrepreneurs feel a lot of these things. You might think it's a unique challenge that you're facing, and why is it, what's, what's wrong with me, that I can't hack this? And that's not the case. There are a lot of things that are consistent challenges across sort of the entrepreneurship space. And there are various groups, you know, even within the tourism industry, for entrepreneurs, that you can be a part of, for example, if you are a certified B Corporation, there's a group called B tourism. It's a working group of different B Corps that are always trying to iterate on their impact and sharing ideas with one another and resources and things like that. So I think community is really important in mitigating some of those fears as well, and just having solid partners in your corner. Again, I think looking for different supports, different providers that can help you along that journey, basically don't do it alone, and I think that includes too even with your external stakeholders telling your customers and clients that, hey, we're committing to a new initiative. We want to mitigate our carbon footprint. We're on this journey. We might face some setbacks, but we want to keep you posted along the way, because we're. Were open to learn and just being very authentic about where you're at in the stage that you're at, you can own what you're really good at, and you can also say we're not quite there yet. We always want to becoming a better and better business. So here's our latest effort to do that. I think, really being committed to authenticity and transparency around your journey, and I do think vulnerability even can be rewarded in the right spaces and with the right people that you're speaking to,

Dolores Semeraro:

which is probably the thing that we try to hide the most, right when we are at the beginning of our entrepreneurial journey. Because we need to look successful. We need to look perfect. We need to look effective and faultless, invincible. So if, let's say, how does a great idea succeed? Go slow, be specific. Don't buy more than you can chew. I love that. Just to summarize your points, having people around, having a strong network, having a supporting network, be transparent and really reflect that journey with transparency along the way, and your customers, and those who believe in that idea, will grow with you. Will will become, in time, not just people that buy from you, but but people that speak for you to others, right? And they become your ambassadors. I love that. Do you think that, in terms of, I mentioned, you mentioned the the B Corp assessment, right and Untours, was the first B Corp certified entity, the very, very first, how much of that really carries on into into the assessment that you conduct like, well, how much of that is reflected in because not every business is B Corp certified, especially The ones that you know land on your desk. So how do you go about it?

Sarah Payne:

I think as the foundation, it owns the world's first B Corp, and that's kind of an interesting story as well. But we are now the sole shareholder of untours, the world's first B Corp. We definitely love working with other B Corps. So if a company is already a certified B Corporation, to be frank, that makes my job of doing my impact due diligence a lot easier, because you already have a verified track record and report card of your impact that I can then go in and see exactly how you're performing in these areas. And so in that way, it makes it very seamless. And we do love to work with B Corps. I think we also realize that not every company can be a B Corp wants to be a B Corp. It's not the end all, be all. I think B Corps are sort of as a lighthouse showing what's possible for business in all of these ways. But it's not a mandate for every company to go through and get that certification. I think that there are things we can definitely learn and any business of any size and type can adopt from the B Corp movement, for example, having a commitment to positive impact incorporated into your legal governing documents. I think that's huge, being accountable to all of your stakeholders, and not just shareholders, legally in your DNA, saying we're not just about profit, we're also about purpose and impact. That's something that any company can do. So we have numerous B Corps in our investment portfolio. We actually have some B Corp funding partners as well. So we've created this ecosystem really with where B Corps play a starring role. Again. We our portfolio spans beyond that, and I think that we really want to inspire those other companies with some of the tools and resources from the B Corp movement. So for example, anyone can take the B impact assessment. You don't have to go on and get it verified and pay to become a certified B Corporation, but anyone in the world can go into the B impact assessment and measure their impact for free. So we exist to kind of bring those tools to entrepreneurs that may not have done that before and may not have the wherewithal or resources to go through it alone either. So we definitely want to make those things accessible to everyone as well, and bring down those barriers as much as we can.

Dolores Semeraro:

I'm actually curious to dig a little bit into those that you know, the process of that, really, of the project, of the projects that land on your desk, you know, where, how does that process look like, and where does it when does it get difficult like, or difficult as perhaps when, when you have to say, no, sorry guys, you have to go back to some more homework, come back later. Or when it gets difficult because it's too good, it's too much. And then you kind of want to tell them, Okay, dissect it just, you know, and it's quite a tricky position to hold on to.

Sarah Payne:

It is, I absolutely love my job, but those times where you do have to say no, because so many ideas do cross our desk, it's, I think, probably the hardest thing for us, we have an application process. Anyone can apply to our reset tourism fund, and then we'll do a variety of screening calls. So the first step is to we'll read through your application, and if it is a fit for not only the fund, but the funding that we have available. Um. That's kind of a puzzle that we have to piece together is what capital do we have available, and how much are they looking for, and does it fit the right criteria? So screening for that, and then getting on a call, learning more, hearing the story from the entrepreneur themselves, and then if all of that is still in alignment, we have a due diligence process where we look not only at the financials of the company and really try to understand the business model and its levers, but also the impact side, as we've been talking all along, impact is very important to us to understand, and so wanting to get as clear on that as possible, we are in the business of creating impact in the world. We are also an investor. And so we do have to be careful of finding ideas that have both. They have both the impact potential and track record, and also our strong businesses. And so we do need financial track record of success as well. We we will invest in startups more often. We invest in established businesses. So there is already kind of that to draw from. We can look at the previous years and see how they've gone and make our investment decisions as we underwrite our loans. That's probably the less you know that's, that's, the more technical part of the job is that piece. But a lot of it is underwriting these loans and making sure they're making sound investment decisions. And part of that is because any capital that we lend out, the idea is that it comes back and then we can lend it to the next world changing entrepreneur. And we actually say that to our investees when we say, you know, congratulations, we want to offer you these terms. Please know that we're entrusting this to you as part of our journey. You know, it's now your responsibility to pay this back so the next entrepreneur can benefit from these funds. So really seeing it as partner with us and also pay it forward, and so trying to create this kind of almost ecosystem right to borrow from the natural world, where we can be interdependent on one another. And you know, there might be a time where you need these resources, and there's another time where someone else needs these resources. A lot of investors, particularly in venture capital, we do make equity investments as well, but we're not looking for unicorns. We're not looking to 10x we're looking for in the investment world, there's this kind of analogy of, there's unicorns and then there's zebras. I don't really know why they landed on zebras, but a Zebra has basically, it's a more it's a smaller, community driven type of business located in local communities. These are companies that pay close attention to their impact, that exist to have a purpose, and that's who we want to fund. Again, often they're smaller businesses. You find them locally, and we're really passionate about finding, for example, in this industry, a tour operator that's been family run for decades and is looking to, for example, have a hybrid fleet of Safari vehicles, or they want to install solar panels, or they want to construct a new bungalow at their lodge, these kinds of things. That's who we sort of exist to support tour operators, lodges, transportation providers, some B to B, some tech, because there are some amazing entrepreneurs out there, obviously, who are disrupting the industry in the best of ways through tech platforms. And we have invested in those too. We want to support people and be the friendliest investor that we can be to companies that are very authentic, very genuine about where they're at in their journey, and want to grow in smart and sustainable ways.

Dolores Semeraro:

I've seen in the recent WTM in London, quite a lot of startups are women led and and this season is a powerhouse of women in travel. So I can't talk about asking these questions. If you have as the cases and the ideas that land on your desk, have you recognized any pattern into women led businesses?

Sarah Payne:

Absolutely, I'm so glad you asked this. And actually, I have to plug greet her up front in this question, an amazing company started by Vanessa. They just, you know, one at WTM, unfortunately, we still live in a world where certain people have more trouble accessing capital and business supports than others. And I think we're making progress on this. I think there's more room to go. You know, I've spoken with female founders who have said that, you know, they walk into rooms and immediately there's a bias towards you, depending on you know, what gender you are and what color skin you have, and that, you know, especially when you're looking for traditional sources of capital, that that still exists for us, I think, because we want to fund very purpose and heart led companies that Pay attention to impact, we see a lot of female founders, and they're great at articulating their why and the impact that they want to create in the world. So I think for us, it obviously can be a great fit. And I think some of our strongest companies in our portfolio are women led. There is a lot of extra pressure, I think for women starting kind. Companies. We all know there's some truth in that, you know, think like a What would you do if you were a white man, kind of thinking, you know, and you know, I don't mean to be incendiary by saying that, but I think that there's still some reality to that, right, where there's so much pressure that as women, we put on so ourselves, especially as entrepreneurs wanting to have to present as perfect in all of the ways, right? But anyway, I do think some of the best ideas that we see are coming from female travelers, or, sorry, some of the best ideas that we see are coming from female entrepreneurs, especially as we see new market opportunities for, for example, female travelers. So greeter is a perfect example of this and and a perfect example of how entrepreneurship so often works that someone faces a challenge and they realize, hey, I'm in a position where I can start something to fix this. So you'll have to listen to Vanessa's episode on this podcast from greet herb about exactly this, and she's really solving a need that for a lot of women couldn't really even articulate. But having this kind of supported travel for especially solo female travelers, that's huge. And so I think leaning into your specific again, skill sets, your place in the world, your communities, all of that, and being authentic as who you are like lean into the fact that you're a female traveler who has encountered barriers in the past. How does that then enable you to create more solutions through your business, whether it's specifically directed at female travel or not? I think there's lessons to be learned there. But again, I can't say enough for the women led companies in our portfolio. We, we have a lot of them, and they're, you know, across industries, obviously, you know we're talking specifically about travel, but one of our, one of our investees, is the company called roar for good, and it's led by Yasmin Mustafa, who was an absolute powerhouse, her family came to the United States, and a lot of her family members were working in vulnerable, low paying jobs in the hospitality sector, and they were very vulnerable, and this led her to develop A tech solution for these vulnerable hospitality workers and hotels and healthcare, it's a panic button that they can push if there is any kind of issue, and their company has just absolutely taken off. She found a very niche need that spoke directly to her lived experience and is now creating incredible value for not only the people that can benefit from this product, but creating business value. It's been incredible to see that company grow over the years. They've been an investee of ours for for many years now.

Dolores Semeraro:

Could you point out or identify a specific moment on that journey of a women led business that where they require a little bit more support, like, is there a moment of, when does a moment of weakness appear? And why? You know, because I just want to understand how the the multiple factors and the things that that have an impact and affect the way women operate their businesses in today's society, and if, if along that journey, there are moment of weakness, is there a moment of extra support that is needed? And why? What's causing it? Is it because, is a social impact, a social factor, or is it money factor, as as a as thinking, okay, so many women in the travel business, in the tourism business. They also do so much more than just being business women, and that's the reality of it. We look at families. We look at not just direct family, but also extended family. We take care of people like we do so many things at the same time, especially when you're an on an entrepreneurial journey, that that support system is there, but when have you seen it's in what specific in relation to what specifically have you seen that moment of weakness happening?

Sarah Payne:

I think women are very community minded and already kind of inherently impact minded, and so sometimes when it comes to making, like cold, hard business decisions, we infuse a lot more of that mentality into how we make those decisions, you know, like wanting to retain all of our employees and create good jobs, even in the face of incredible challenges. The other thing is, I think we also feel keenly what you alluded to, as well of all of these other aspects of our lives that also demand our intention and that we see as very valuable. So sometimes business demands can just get to be so much. And as women, as people, we need to sometimes be able to step back and say, What are my priorities? And again, women just tend to have a lot of these competing priorities. And there might be. Seasons where business is incredibly busy and but you need to look after your mental well being, or the people of those you love around you, and I think that does happen more often for women that they're put in those positions. The other thing is, I think we tend to question ourselves a bit more too. Or, you know, when barriers come up, we might look internal and say, well, what could I be doing better? Or, you know, what's going on with me? And being kind of self critical, and it's, it's really challenging, you know, just to balance all of that. It's challenging to balance a life that is filled with people alone, and then on top of that, to have a business that is often, you know, your heart and soul. I think we sometimes create these businesses that are an extension of ourselves, and so we care so deeply about these businesses as if they were us. And so you want to steward that and and give it the time and the dedication that it needs, recognizing that that's not the only thing in our life. And so all of these multiple juggling priorities. I think that's always going to be a challenge. I personally, I love having some women founders in my life, and I think they all could use, you know, that extra like those check ins sometimes and seeing how they're doing in those extra supports. I'll mention there's a great accelerator called women's work that exists to create spaces for women and non binary entrepreneurs to have space for these kinds of things, not only the technical resources to grow a business, but again, that community aspect of people that know a bit about what your journey might be like being a female founder, and I think there's a really exciting future for on tours, the travel company and the untoward Foundation, looking to direct more investments into the places where our travelers are actually going, so they can see some of our investments in action and creating, again, this kind of ecosystem for for travelers that can then get involved with the foundation and be plugged in with other world changing work. So, yeah, I think the future is bright for us. We've been really fortunate at the Untours Foundation, with our reset tourism fund, we have some amazing funding partners, including Expedia group, tui Care Foundation, a number of others. And we've deployed almost a million dollars to date across over 30 different companies since starting, you know, pretty recently. So we see a lot of continued potential there to bring more people into this journey, with the goal really being to provide accessible and flexible capital to small tourism businesses across the world. No one else is really doing that. So in that way, I think we have a corner on the market, which, you know, isn't the rationale. We're really hoping to unleash the power of these businesses in their communities to have more impact, to again serve more of their local community members, provide high quality jobs, to protect their local ecosystems. That, to me, is where travel is moving, and I think we're pretty poised within that, on creating experiences that are meaningful to everybody, regardless of for example, ability accessible travel is a huge movement, and we're really proud to have invested in a lot of accessible travel companies, as well as companies that really focus on local agency. We made an investment into kapawi Eco Lodge, for example, it's 100% solar powered and 100% indigenous owned Eco Lodge in Ecuadorian Amazon. And it was started by a community of indigenous people who saw what development, traditional economic development, was doing to their country, all the extractive industries coming in. And they said, as a community, we want to choose regenerative tourism as our way into the future, to create value for communities, to bring people here to see what we're all about. And they've created this amazing, sustainable in every sense of the word, business that has flourished throughout the decades. And I think they're such a great example, because it also brings in this local agency aspect that I think we always have to pay attention to in tourism, of what do these local communities where people are going, what do they want for themselves?

Dolores Semeraro:

If you were to leave the podcast, listeners and tourism entrepreneur, tourism businesses listening to the podcast. I know the podcast has a strong business to business, sort of listenership core. But I also think that this new season will bring in a lot of new energy and a lot of new listenership, hopefully inspired by the conversation we're having. What would be your word of wisdom to leave them, you know, for someone that is cultivating an idea and is looking at, is looking at ways to, you know, to bring it to the world,

Sarah Payne:

I think so many things, but the one that is sticking to me right now, we've had this wide ranging conversation about impact and business and all of these different things, I think, for entrepreneurs in the. Tourism industry taking time to really step back and see some of these trends as a whole, and think about where you sit within that, personally and professionally. I think a lot of the industry is changing under our feet. People are caring much more about impact. Again, however you define that, than ever before. There's more scrutiny on the industry. There's more potential to travel to all of these different parts of the world, and it can be for good or ill. And so any travel company really needs to be paying attention to that. Pay attention to who you're serving, who can access your trips. Pay attention to your environmental footprint, because we have to care for this earth that we have so many things that are now new priorities for travel companies and to your point, before that can feel like a lot, that can feel really overwhelming, but there are ways to again, get a foothold in one thing at a time and move into that find communities that are working on these different issues that you care About. But the very first step is giving yourself space to even think about all of these things that you see and you're hearing about. Take time to understand all of that, and then then think about how to integrate it into your business. I just personally really thank you for taking the time to join me today. I wish you and the team. Great work ahead all the best, and we will be watching the new talents you know, that come out of the foundation work. But also I would leave on the show notes of this episode the contact details and the links that will connect the podcast listeners to you and to the work of the Foundation. If anyone is listening to the podcast and feel that you're the right person to talk to. They can get in touch, have a conversation with you, and move that very first step. Thank you, Dolores.