Truth Behind Travel Podcast

The Screen-to-Scream Effect: The Influence of Travel Media Today with Carmen Roberts

• Dolores Semeraro • Season 4 • Episode 81

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Dolores Semeraro interviews Carmen Roberts, BBC travel journalist, international speaker and travel expert on the evolution of travel media and the impact of user-generated content on tourism. 

Through the lenses of Carmen's vaste experience in travel journalism, this episode exploresCarmen discusses the shift from traditional media to user-generated content, the rise of influencers, and the challenges of maintaining authenticity while managing tourist behavior. 

The concept of cultural appropriation, the role of local communities in shaping travel narratives, and the responsibility of content creators in promoting responsible tourism. 

More on Carmen Roberts: https://carmenrobertstravels.com

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Host of Truth Behind Travel Podcast, Dolores Semeraro is a sought-after international tourism keynote speaker and sustainable tourism marketing professional.

Dolores actively works in the tourism and travel conference space as a keynote speaker and moderator, gracing the stages of international tourism summits and trade shows.

As a professional keynote speaker, Dolores’ speaking topics encompass sustainability in tourism, digital marketing and how to identify today’s traveler’s needs through technology and innovation.

5 years ago, Dolores launched her podcast show named ‘Truth Behind Travel Podcast’ where she regularly interviews tourism and travel industry leaders and representatives on how to rebuild the future of travel.

www.doloressemeraro.com

dolores@doloressemeraro.com

Instagram @dolores_semeraro

LinkedIn @dolores.sem

Dolores Semeraro:

Welcome back to the show. Today, I am beyond excited to have on truth behind travel podcast, a travel expert, a media personality in the travel and tourism sphere, a person that I've met in my probably early, early days of hospitality and tourism back in China during the Olympic Games of Beijing 2008 which left such a mark that I decided never to leave the industry and one day to meet her. We haven't met yet in person, but we are working on that welcome. Carmen Roberts, the truth behind travel podcast.

Carmen Roberts:

Hi Dolores, it was so great to meet you back in 2008 in the Beijing Olympics, and I'm so glad that we've been able to connect a few times since then online.

Dolores Semeraro:

You've worked in the travel industry from a communication and media perspective around the world, really. And I have been, I've always been a great follower of your work and a great admirer, not just because of the places you got to visit, and the stories you were able to share, but the the tone of voice, the authenticity, the that sense of genuineity, that that tone of voice that was really fresh was not staged, was it was really coming from a place of passion, rather than a workplace, so to speak, just walk us through your story and where you are today.

Carmen Roberts:

Well, I'm most known for my work on the travel show on the BBC, but that show in itself has evolved. It's first started off in different guises in 20 years ago, almost, and it's it's really changed, because the way people consume travel media has changed. We don't need to know how to get to places where to stay. I think the traveler today is far more sophisticated. So I myself moved to Asia 15 years ago, so I was there for 11 years, and then I've come back to the UK a couple of years ago, and I found that the media landscape has totally changed. Travel programs on TV and online are celebrity LED or they are reality TV type situations like race around the world. So that's on the traditional media. And of course, we've seen a huge explosion of user generated content, so people on YouTube, and that's been absolutely fascinating as well. So I've also evolved in that space. So I still do my traditional TV work. I still do some writing. I do some content creation because I love using my media skills in in the creative space for content creation. So I found that side really rewarding as well. And I've also started my own travel business where I can help people book their holidays as well, because it inevitably that's what people ask me to do.

Dolores Semeraro:

And this is what brings me to one question that I had prepared for this podcast, and I think it's something very much related to this evolution of, how do we tell the story? How do we develop storytelling in the digital space now that the DIY the user generated content, the travel writer turned into a content creator. I mean this word alone, content creator, which became a job for for many, actually, and quite a ludic, ludicrous one. I wonder if that that space is regulated enough, because at the moment, the tourism levels are already above and beyond the pre covid times, and people love to look at those numbers to say we have reclaimed our spot top 10 Most Visited destinations and so and we are in Europe, which obviously has a lot of that. Of that case, what we notice is bad behavior of tourists, especially in moments of, you know, high season, peak season. However, I would argue, and I would like to discuss with you whether that so called bad behavior. Does it come from a place of wanting to emulate and wanting to follow what what I've seen online. You know, what people are seeing on social media. So in other words, is this DIY, self generated content space of content creator regulated enough to make sure that the media creator, per se, don't generate, by consequence, a bad behavior of tourists?

Carmen Roberts:

Yeah, that's a really great question. And there's so many layers to this, this situation, because I think travelers really want authenticity. And particularly since covid, the price of travel has increased, and so people want value for money. So you want to go to a destination, and you want to know that you are getting the most out of a destination. And you're right, it's really difficult to regulate the user generated influencer content creation industry. It's really, really difficult, and it's that balance. You want authenticity. You want to hear from different voices, from different people of all ages, sizes, shapes, cultures. You want to hear their experience, but inevitably, you want to get the best out of a destination. So people will always see, oh, this is the best picture that you can get. This is the the most picturesque destination, picturesque beauty spot that you must visit. So everyone goes to that same beauty spot, and then it becomes overcrowded, and the locals get really annoyed because there's too many people there, and there's no one else at another beautiful spot a kilometer down the road. So it's a real, real balance, and as you say, it's difficult to regulate. But I think also the ownership belongs to the Tourism Board, the local authorities as well, to try and help guide people control the flow of traffic. That's probably a really formal way of putting it. But you know, you've got to have processes in place, which I can imagine, is really quite tricky from a destination's point of view, particularly when you see online so many beautiful images, and everyone wants to get that exact photo opportunity at the Trevi Fountain, or whether you're in Santorini, you want to be standing on the top of the white village in your flowing dress getting that picture? Yeah, it's it's a real problem, and it's a difficult balance to strike.

Dolores Semeraro:

Have you ever found yourself engaged or hired or contracted for a job related to promoting a certain place? Let's call it like that. Some people don't like the word destination, but let's say a place and actually fail to receive a proper brief.

Carmen Roberts:

Yeah. So there is often a brief but sometimes it there's a balance as well that the destination needs to strike with the creators, because you don't want to be so specific to tame their voice. You want their personality to come through, because that's why you have hired them or brought them to your destination. So it is really difficult, and maybe you need to go back a few steps, and in your choice of creator who look at their content, that they, that they put out, and is this the voice that you want for your destination? So maybe there's there's that, because I know a lot of creators feel stifled if they have too much direction, too many stipulations and requirements that they need to hit. But also, you do need guidelines. I do agree.

Dolores Semeraro:

The thing is, when these creators are contacted by a destination management board, we often just look at the numbers, their reach, their followers. What will be that return of return on visibility that that creator can give? We don't enough look into to what kind of range of travelers that creator speaks to to ensure that it is aligned with the destination strategy to begin with, and in many cases we I've seen plenty of cliche content created and still going viral. So you mentioned earlier that there has been a shift in the way people consume travel content. And I love I mean this word consume that already puts me on on the alert, like, are we actually just consuming travel content? What do you see from your side?

Carmen Roberts:

Yes, it's such a complex issue, isn't it, I can think of one really good example of a very well known tourist board who I won't mention, but I know they will only look at certain creators with big numbers. So we're looking in the at least three figures of followers. And this in itself, could be a problem. While it's great, you want to see your return on investment, but you need to look at the quality of those followers and that same destination a few years ago, not that many years ago, had engaged these. Influencers or content creators, and it created a real problem and friction on the ground with the local community, because they weren't always respectful, and in their quest to get that perfect shot, it caused a lot of disruption on the ground, and then gave content creators a bad name, which is, it's it's really difficult, and I can see it from the content creators side as well. Because you want to do a good job, you want to get the most number of views, you want to get the most amount of engagement. And you know the shots that will do it. So it's really, it's real, a real balance that you've got to strike, and it's difficult,

Dolores Semeraro:

in a way, from a content creator point of view, there's a lot of responsibility at stake if you cultivate, over the years, over time, an audience that truly trust you, trust your opinion, your voice, what you do, what you what you share. That sense of responsibility can give a lot of pressure on the on the type of work that you put forward, and how to achieve quality in that work. So at some point, people, some creators, they they stop at nothing. They create the ground base for what could potentially become later on, really bad tourism, because they need to strike. They need to get the impossible shot. They need to get that content that goes viral. So I wonder who plays the game of blame. You know, do we blame the Creator, or do we blame the destination not giving them a proper brief, but we blame the audience not able to understand what is proper, what is safe, what is suitable. And one of the one of the images that really shocked me, and recently I saw that online, some of the one of the trends of course of this year is this wellness and well being, type of travel, and people are seeking spirituality as a new sense of, you know, achieved well being. And that spirituality is often sort of packaged in a nice, so called retreat, most likely in destinations like Bali in Indonesia. And that often goes into that kind of photo where people are, I don't know, being blessed, being being showered with flowers or water or so, and the it's called cultural immersion for some, because in the tourism and travel, we love to give names and to categorize and to define every single type of trouble, every move has a definition. We love definitions in tourism industry. So cultural immersion is actually a way of saying cultural appropriation, because these traits that are authentic and real and perhaps should stay within the local community are instead used to attract travelers, and in this case, we fail to protect the local cultures as such. So because we spread a narrative that invites people, that makes them feel allowed, that they can do that. So when it comes to cultural appropriation, who do you think really owns the narrative? It's it's a destination. Are the local community or is the narrator?

Carmen Roberts:

I think it's definitely the local community and, and this is the, this is a, I don't want to say the word problem, but this is what happens. You know, people come in they want to be seen, to be having a local spiritual experience. They want to be seen, to be immersing themselves, but to be fair, they're really only there for a week, and they're they're getting the obligatory blessing. It is difficult, and then they might not have had that deep and meaningful conversation with a local person. So whether it be a language barrier, it might have been a time constraint, or they might not have had the access. This is the thing. I think audiences now are becoming more aware of this. I think people are becoming more savvy. They realize that this is what is happening. So I would hope that they might be taking this cultural appropriation with a grain of salt, because they'll realize that Mary from the UK has gone to Bali for a week, and this is her experience. She's not really becoming immersed in the culture, because you can't in a week. So I think audiences, from that perspective, are becoming a bit more savvy about this, but what we really need to be able to do is to have better lines of communication with local people. So for instance, I did a trek. With intrepid travel in Nepal. And it was a women only experience, and it was fantastic. So all the guides, all the porters, everyone on the trip was female and local, and we really got to, you know, we were three days in the mountains, hiking with these porters, with these guides, and we really learned a lot about them. We were able to hear about their home lives, how difficult it was to begin their guiding journey, for instance, how it's difficult to do that if you're a woman in Nepal. So that was that was an experience that really stayed with me, because it was authentic. It was local. I was speaking with local people. I was walking next to these women for six hours a day. So it was it was wonderful, but not everyone gets that experience, not every influencer, not every content creator will have that experience. So it is it can be difficult.

Dolores Semeraro:

we're moving towards a more of a an entrepreneurial era of content generation, or message generation, where we have to create, how about we do a challenge for the rest of the podcast. We do not use the word content anymore. Okay, okay, I'm just joking. But the idea is that when we tell a story, when we share something, we learn what something, for example, that you've learned out of your trip in Nepal and and you report that under the shape of a video, an article on the blog, perhaps a an interview on a podcast like this one, for example, you are sharing a story. You are telling a story that you have lived through an authentic experience. And some may argue that the moment we are portraying too much the authentic experience. Experiences, the authenticity of the experience, per se, gets lost because more people get in what, what is an authentic experience? Is it something that few people do? Is that something that few people have access to, if, if 100 1000s people have access to one experience, can that be considered still authentic? So the parameter of authenticity are sort of like a work in progress as we develop the narrative of the future of travel. So let's, let's go back to your story and the hike that you've done. You've shared videos. You've shared your your experience. You've shared behind the scenes clips, which was very interesting, and without a doubt. You must have put Nepal on the bucket list of at least 1000s of people. Do you feel that? Are you aware of that when you put content out? Because it brings me to my next question, which is related to, how does authentic storytelling gets affected by the volume of it?

Carmen Roberts:

Yeah, that is really, really a great question. Dolores and, you know, authenticity is so different for many people, stories can get diluted. That is so true. I really do think, though it all boils down to your interaction with a local person. I think that is, is really what can make or break your your holiday, your trip, if you're Joe Public, going on holiday, it's not always the five star hotel room that you'll remember, or the Michelin star meal that you ate often. It's the interaction you had with your taxi driver who told you a bit about his home life, or, you know, spoke to you about his children and how they were also similar age to your children. It's, it's little things like that, even that might not be you're walking with the Nepalese guide. It could be something as simple as just meeting a local person. And I think that's what storytellers really need to hone in on a bit more. And I think that's definitely nowadays, travelers are more discerning, and that's what they're looking for. They're looking for a bit of authenticity, a glimpse into the local life, what life is really like at a destination that they're visiting. Of course, there'll be people that just want to fly and flop, go to a hotel and lie on the beach. But I think particularly since covid, when travels become more expensive, you want to make sure you're getting more bang for your buck if you're going to a destination, you want to know you've you've experienced it on a different level,

Dolores Semeraro:

Even if that means. You are replicating a range of a list of things that hundreds of dozens of people have done behind you. Does that make it less special?

Carmen Roberts:

No, I don't think it does. I think it's nice to have, it's good to be able to have that list. Oh, you know, this is what was recommended. But I think you can always take away your own experience from that. You might have spoken to the the local ice cream seller at that really touristy hot spot, and he might have explained to you that, you know this is, this is too touristy. You should try come back at this time, or go around the corner, and this is great. And you know, it's difficult, but I think people do play The Imitation Game, definitely. And if you look back over the years, that's how we've done it for so many years. You had it in your guidebook. This is what the guide the Lonely Planet said, I need to go here. So this is where I will go. But I think at the end of the day, what people remember is when they talk to a local person that their interaction that can often make it a standout experience and and give you that added authenticity.

Dolores Semeraro:

Have you ever felt in one of your personal experiences? Perhaps you know from when you have your professional hat on that story or something that has happened to you in that specific moment with with a local person? Have you ever felt that this wasn't for sharing like a moment where you felt, well, this is great, but I won't share it so that it stays sort of like from a protective point of view.

Carmen Roberts:

Oh, yeah, definitely. And often it's an emotional connection or something that maybe made you cry and you don't want to share of course, people share everything these days, right? That's right, I maybe need to share more, but yeah, there's always that something that you do want to hold back, or that local place in Japan, when I lived there for eight years I might not want to share online, there's, there's always some, some kind of little local, authentic piece of a destination that you might not want to share. But I think nowadays, everyone is an over sharer.

Dolores Semeraro:

Absolutely, totally agree. This is something that I'm trying to come away from, even in my own approach to social media, the way we utilize these tools is directly affecting the way we we perceive, always within the Tourism and Travel sphere, the way we perceive things that we need to do, things that we Need to see, places there where we need to eat, and that goes beyond our personal preferences, because we tend to conform. And this idea of having to conform to what works, to what is to what is on trend, to what is going on at the moment is damaging the reputation of many places around the world, to the point that, you know, we've heard it quite a few times, locals rioting and protesting in the streets against tourists. And I wonder if it really is a tourist responsibility, because at the end, they are almost the symptom of a real cause. And the real cause starts where the destination management reputation fails to take control, or to be in control, really. So we see this, and we think, Oh, look at, for example, the Canary Island, or the balearis, or other places that in Europe where we've seen this type of protests. We think, Oh, look at them. The tourists are bad. They're ruining the local people life. But I would argue that is not the tourists fault. Is, in fact, something a little bit deeper, a little bit beyond the facade of what the media is showing us. Have you found yourself in a situation where the story that was told, it wasn't actually depicting the real, the reality of things?

Carmen Roberts:

definitely. You know, there's so many places that you go that you have a certain perception that you've seen online, you've seen in magazines or photographs, and then you get there and you think, oh, no, this is, this is not what I thought it would be, you can't help but be, not brainwashed. But you know, this is the certain expectation that you think a destination is, and it might not always be that. So that is really interesting, but also it's tourist boards as well. So, you know, the fortunes of a country or destination are valued by how much money they bring in, how much the tourism dollar is worth. You know, so many destinations, countries, cities, places, will always say, you know, we brought in X number of tourist dollars, and that's how it is celebrated. Whereas I often say, in an ideal world, what would be a true indication of a place's wealth is how well the locals live around this destination? Do they have quality of life? Are they able to live in their homes without? You know, a lot of people in Venice can't live in their homes during the peak season. They don't want to. They feel they've been driven out, priced out, even so it is, it's, it's a vicious circle, and it's, it's difficult to undo

Dolores Semeraro:

when you look at the different narratives that destinations are trying to promote, like whether it is come any time of the year, or specifically in certain seasons or trying to appeal to different type of tourism. For example, sports tourism, wellness tourism, cultural tourism, you name it, some, some, some destination. Don't even make the distinction. They just say, Come whatever, whatever you want to do, just come at the end of the day. I think of how everyone now is a tiny, tiny reporter, in a way, this user generated content that you mentioned spin on and it's been growing and growing even into his own profession, so to speak. So everyone can create content, share an experience and even go viral, if that's really what they what they're after. So if they can do it, if the destination can do it, if the proper media can do it, and the audience is just there to consume from left, right and center, whose responsibility is now like, where does that responsibility lies? Because at the end of the day, we're only just talking about the symptoms of tourism, and in many cases, the bad symptoms. So where does the response? Where is the responsibility of storytelling when it comes to showcasing a place, an experience, an activity or some sort?

Carmen Roberts:

that's a great question, and I think ultimately it lies with the destination. But you see a lot of destinations not wanting to promote certain local voices because it'll ruin the perception, or come across wrong, or their English isn't good enough. They're, they're not well spoken. It's, you know, a lot I've seen that a lot. I see a lot of public relations companies or destinations, you know, you can only talk to the media if you're x, y and z, if you pass this English test, or, you know, you look a certain way, and that is, that can be damaging. I get it. I get you don't want to put any fool on TV or give them a platform. But still, it's, it's difficult when you sanitize these local voices. And that is, that is often difficult, but it ultimately, I do think it does. The ownership does fall on the destination itself, or the governments or the bodies that are controlling the tourism

Dolores Semeraro:

and it's not just a tourism destination management board or the tourism office, so to speak, it's the stakeholders. It's the entire leading community of a destination. And so I would say, instead of just thinking, if anything out of this podcast episode, we think about destination positioning. Let's not just think strategy, let's not just think marketing. Let's think broader, whatever the traveler witnessed during the travel, it's what goes on social media. It's what gets perpetuated, snapped on, you know, with the phone or anything, and never even in time. That's what creates a reputation of a destination. So I think to add on to you, is really the responsibility of everybody in the destination, from the road cleaners to to the people sitting in the in the mayor's office. I believe and in some destination do it better than others. That's true. But lastly, I know you've traveled a lot and you've seen the good, the bad and the other. Really, of many, many destinations, where have you seen the good? Tell me, out of your experience, which destination really nails it?

Carmen Roberts:

There's, there's a lot that are trying to do. Destinations are really trying to, to give the local, authentic voice. I see New Zealand, their 100% pure campaign was excellent. They included the Maori indigenous voices. New Zealand is not easy to manage, I would say, from a destination point of view, I think that they've done a great job with that 100% pure campaign, Bhutan. Bhutan has done a great job. They've also limited the number of tourists that come through. So this has been quite helpful in their campaign as well, you know. But if, if everyone did the same thing, the world would be a bit not as an exciting a place. I think so it in that way, it makes these different quirks of different destinations do make it different and interesting for travelers.

Dolores Semeraro:

We are living in an ever changing world in in the media landscape and the responsibility of how the message is portrayed is now not only on the media platforms, but on everyone's shoulder, because the content is user generated, right? So if you were to as an expert in the field, a world traveler, a person that is passionate about sharing truthful messages and also stories that are relevant to people, because only when something is relevant you connect, you start to care when it's not relevant to you, you you don't care. You don't you don't really relate. And in terms of what we're seeing today, if you were to leave a word of wisdom to those starting off a career in in travel media nowadays, what would be your best recommendation?

Carmen Roberts:

I think that's a great, a great sentiment to end on. I think particularly in today's media space where everyone has a voice, it's great that so many different people are able to have a voice, but use it responsibly. So be mindful that you're not going to create some sort of chaos on the ground or perpetuate a stereotype. Try and go beyond the the the eye that viral photograph, go beyond and speak to some local people. I think that really the onus is on everyone these days to try and give an accurate picture, give an accurate description of your experience in a destination, so that that onus doesn't just fall on the media platforms or the media organizations or the governments, anymore, it also falls down to travelers, to influences, to the average tourist. You know, even the average tourist will be telling their friends about their experience, and you also have a responsibility

Dolores Semeraro:

and on that responsibility, I would invite everyone that wants to sort of deepen this conversation, perhaps even have a new one, a new conversation with Carmen, to head over to the show notes of the podcast, where Carmen contact details will be particularly her social platforms and their website don't come with a question, where would you recommend me to go on the next holiday? Or you do if you want to have, you know, a fantastic, I'm sure, a fantastic itinerary draft up. But at the same time, I think the expertise and and the authenticity that you come and bring into the work that you put out every day, not content. It's work. It's your work. It's your voice. It comes from your experience. It's valuable. It's something that I encourage everyone to take a look, to take notice of and to be inspired of as it inspires me every day. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Carmen Roberts:

Thank you so much for having me.